Leah Segedie on the Truth About PFAS and How to (Somewhat) Avoid Them

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Katie: Howdy, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the top. And I’m right here right now with Leah Segedie, who helps ladies and mothers make safer shopper decisions for his or her households. And she or he is the writer at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we discuss particularly about one thing referred to as PFAS, that are chemical substances which are present in all types of family merchandise. We go deep on this right now, however we speak about what they’re, why they’re thought of perpetually chemical substances, how there are over 10,000 within the atmosphere, and the way they have an effect on the physique in a number of alternative ways. We speak about how testing may be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical substances, how one can keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I realized so much. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?

 

Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.

 

Katie: Likewise, I like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you simply guys can really watch our faces whereas we discuss. I believe most individuals nonetheless pay attention on podcast apps, nevertheless it’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you stated, it’s been some time since we acquired to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really specific subject. However earlier than we do, I’ve a word in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are principally a human pretzel. So I might simply love to listen to a bit of bit about this story first.

 

Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, nevertheless it’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s a bit of wiener canine or one thing. And so the people who have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two kinds of people who it’s actually frequent in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, and so they’re the reindeer individuals. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. They usually have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you’ll be able to Google it. However principally, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket each time I need.

 

Now, after I’m working, that’s dangerous, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. For those who can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and having the ability to put my foot again right here after I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out once they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my ft right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I need to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of , I don’t have the…I simply seem like a humorous toy after I do this. However it is extremely fascinating and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my ft proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.

 

Katie: That’s humorous. And considered one of my…

 

Leah: If nobody has recognized me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover wonderful.

 

Katie: Effectively, and considered one of my favourite journey recollections of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to satisfy the Sami tribe. They’re a few of the most fascinating individuals I’ve ever met and completely lovely the way in which their life-style is, very completely different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as effectively.

 

Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my kin that I do know which are in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve a number of kin which are in Bergen, which is basically cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply wonderful. You need to go there as soon as in your lifetime.

 

Katie: I’ll put it on the record. And I really feel like I might speak about that every one day lengthy. However we even have one other vital subject that I believe will probably be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t understand it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing a brilliant, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this subject, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them right now. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak so much about right now, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?

 

Leah: It’s referred to as, you’ll be able to confer with it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation and so they’re simply placing it collectively. So primarily, after we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical substances and a chemical class. They usually all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical substances as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical substances that we now have been sort of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical substances was regarded as secure, , inert, like okay, however within the final couple many years, we discovered that they’re persistent, which suggests they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical substances are. That’s why they’re known as perpetually chemical substances. These perpetually chemical substances can final in your physique for a few years or many years. They simply actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the impartial scientists who have been coming within the backend making an attempt to see in the event that they’re secure, it’s been so much and lot a number of dangerous information. So for those who’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, , engaged on PFAS options, or in case you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical substances that we now have had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.

 

So what I’m doing proper now’s, and thru Mamavation, is basically making an attempt to construct up some consciousness round ladies, in order that they know what to search for and know how one can keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this case is it’s unattainable to utterly keep away from them. You would need to dwell…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’ll nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, and so they get in all places. However what we will do is we will make educated selections and decisions in our dwelling, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our kids are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually vital is the following era.

 

Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, bettering issues for our children. What are a few of the problematic areas we see with regards to these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you stated, a number of this analysis is just within the final couple of many years. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?

 

Leah: So to begin with, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for women, it’s actually dangerous for women, nevertheless it’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought when it comes to that, you don’t want further testosterone in your physique. However for those who’re a person, and also you get further testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, performed, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually dangerous for those who’re making an attempt to have a child, otherwise you’re making an attempt to breed, . The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with every thing else is it kills your immune system, primarily, it brings down your immunity so that you simply can’t battle off illnesses.

 

Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is taking place. Now, I don’t know the way many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you have got in your system, the much less seemingly vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s a few of the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve performed this in adults, however they’ve undoubtedly performed in kids. They usually know that the extra you have got in your physique, and keep in mind, this could occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less seemingly you’ll be able to reply to one thing like a vaccine, or every other sort of medicine that’s like that, that’s presupposed to deliver up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually need to watch out about.

 

They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and sort 2 diabetes. In order that they’re linking it to sort 2 diabetes, particularly in ladies. So there’s a number of ladies strolling round who’re having points and it might have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, after all, cancers, there’s a number of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is smart for those who understand it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s sort of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, , what’s taking place to us can be taking place to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our shopper merchandise, it’s getting in all types of issues.

 

And so to be aware that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t need to stress your self out to the quantity that you simply’re making your self sick, proper? However on the earth of, these are chemical substances that I need to keep away from, it is a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is greater up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I might take a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, for those who’re fearful about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. You recognize what I imply? Like, these kinds of issues. That’s an even bigger class that you simply simply need to keep away from.

 

Katie: Yeah. So many vital factors I believe you’ve simply made. And I believe what I might simply spotlight is whether or not persons are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I believe that’s its personal separate dialog, however the vital similarity there may be that in each instances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to change into a polarizing subject. However in each instances, it’s like how will we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these instances, and that’s one thing we will really all agree on. And so it is a piece of that puzzle. I consider a number of similarities like plastic-type chemical substances, for example, as effectively, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if attainable in any respect will we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?

 

Leah: You may’t. Effectively, right here’s the exhausting factor, it builds up. So it’s a type of chemical substances that we don’t have any proof of something having the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the exhausting half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the fact. If individuals inform you the alternative, I don’t know the way supported that’s by the info, proper? So that is a type of distinctive chemical substances that doesn’t function like different chemical substances, , a number of these nasty, persistent chemical substances are trapped in fats. So for those who can pull it out via the fats, then you’ll be able to pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very in a different way in your physique, and the reply is they only don’t know.

 

So what the best-case state of affairs is correct now’s to keep away from it as a lot as you’ll be able to, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it if you’re pregnant, after which when your kids are about 5, and so up till that, that’s if you’re simply , searching for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however after all, , hormone-disrupting chemical substances are worse throughout hormone modifications throughout the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when every thing is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, , issues acquired to simply align proper. The second half is if you’re out and it’s 5 years, , your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.

 

Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is if you undergo the change, proper, you begin to change into a lady otherwise you change into a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you need to begin to consider this, though they don’t care, you continue to need to give it some thought, proper? After which in direction of the top of your life, for girls it’s if you undergo the change once more and also you cease having the ability to, , have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, , that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it could be good to know, really. However these are a very powerful occasions so that you can begin fascinated by these items, when these kinds of individuals… when you have got kids in the home.

 

Katie: Yeah, and I believe the stability, such as you stated is vital, like keep away from it each time attainable, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I all the time consider, particularly after we’re speaking about chemical substances, we don’t really know how one can get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any means attainable. After which attempt to preserve a balanced stress stage and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m an enormous fan of issues like sauna, simply primary hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical substances within the physique.

 

Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the dangerous stuff comes out if you poop, you need to do this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…, they haven’t performed research on that but. However I believe it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now making an attempt to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical substances. You have been saying one thing about plasticizers. Mockingly, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s a complete class referred to as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is sort of like, which is a polymer. And mockingly, , after I do testing, there aren’t any assessments to seek out all of those polymers. So after I’m testing for these chemical substances, and I’m searching for over 10,000 of them, the sort of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot test. It’s seeking to see if these chemical components are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s unattainable. There’s solely about 90 chemical substances you’ll be able to take a look at for at a very good business lab. Most of those labs that you would be able to take a look at for will solely be capable to take a look at for possibly 16 to 30. Nevertheless it’s in a college lab, they will most likely discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.

 

The opposite possibility is what you see a number of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so then you definitely function one other take a look at that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing referred to as natural fluorine, which isn’t an exquisite factor. Once I say natural when it comes to chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it sort of means the alternative, it means man-made. So I’m searching for the man-made fluorine. While you discover that, there’s sort of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very more likely to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescribed drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I might be discovering. The testing that I function is a very excessive take a look at. It seems at 10 elements per million. Now, though I’m saying elements per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of once they’re testing in water, they’re wanting all the way in which down within the elements per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic measurement swimming pools, proper? And so mine could be possibly a drop in an everyday pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not wanting in water, we’re wanting in shopper merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, primarily, as a result of that’s how the take a look at is, burns issues, . So if it could possibly’t be burned, we will’t use that testing technique. Then there’s different issues we will take a look at.

 

Nevertheless it’s additionally actually troublesome to seek out, and , the devils within the particulars, for those who can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m sort of standing within the center right here. I’m sending a number of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that may be pure, , sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers needs to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they need to find out about every thing else. And you’ll be sort of shocked, within the pure trade, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to seek out. There’s a number of causes behind that.

 

One of many causes is, like for example, for those who’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to stop them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. They usually don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, , emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” They usually’re like, “It’s not there.” They usually’ll say to me one thing like, “Effectively, you must, , strain the FDA to take these out of…, as authorised oblique components, as an alternative of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I believe you must most likely repair this within the requirements, I simply suppose you must.” However that’s simply my opinion.

 

So it may be in something, primarily. And for those who check out the FDA web site, on what’s authorised for a meals contact sort of substance, there’s a number of polymers which are authorised, polymeric PFAS. So meaning these are PFAS chemical substances which are made up of all these several types of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS manufactured from PFAS, and likewise, nevertheless it turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, most likely, I’m considering, since there’s so a lot of them which are authorised by the FDA, that’s most likely what we might most likely be seeing in meals, , sort of producing. I’ve by no means been capable of isolate and discover it as a result of these assessments are simply not obtainable. However I preserve seeing it in all types of merchandise. And I’m actually joyful to do that testing as a result of not solely do I need to know, however as soon as I began testing, everyone else needed to know as effectively. So it’s an amazing service that we’re capable of present for individuals at Mamavation. I’m actually joyful to have the ability to do that.

 

Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some frequent merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I might love to listen to what are a few of the frequent sources within the dwelling atmosphere that some individuals listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as effectively. What could be a few of the frequent sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the dwelling?

 

Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless suppose you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. Numerous this is able to be cookware, so in case you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I might keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve acquired nice content material about that and I’ve acquired content material about that, that have been sort of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally need to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you can find it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s exterior. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the surface, if it will get too scorching, it could possibly disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless sort of a difficulty. So we’re proper now working via these merchandise for air fryers and all types of various issues. I might simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to ensure that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Positively not meals contact, meals contact could be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.

 

Meals packaging is one other subject, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which are manufactured from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which are manufactured from PFAS. They usually, a few of them generally they’ll inform you, however you bought to be seeking to see which of them, and simply to sort of assist out your individuals proper now as a result of I do know that you simply’re going to ask me which of them are secure. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears sort of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which is named Gifbera, after which one other one referred to as Katbite, which I believe is Korean, these are all obtainable on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.

 

However right here’s like, a number of occasions if you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a difficulty of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner from scratch at dwelling, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even realizing about it as a result of a number of occasions it has to do with the processing of the meals someway, and the way these chemical substances, be in polymers or no matter, are stepping into every thing. So the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I believe that’s most likely one thing that you simply love to listen to, the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner utilizing components that about, the higher off you’re.

 

One other actually huge space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However , your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different individuals’s. And it accommodates a number of fireplace retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical tools in your home. So your tv most likely has some PFAS within the wiring, possibly has it someplace. And when that plastic will get scorching, a number of these plastics have fireplace retardants and different kinds of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get scorching, they sort of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in direction of mud. In order that they persist with the mud and so they fall, proper?

 

So how do you get this out of your home? I might say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, , the cleaner you retain your home, the much less seemingly your kids are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, , being on carpet in case you have got previous carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, , to get that stuff out of it, it should break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you’ll be able to, these kinds of issues. Get an air air purifier, a few of the finest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we suggest are most likely additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you need to eliminate the mud.

 

Make-up and private care, it is a actually troublesome subject. Earlier this 12 months, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 standard, principally standard make-up merchandise and so they discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go wherever and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you need to sort of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.

 

I might say we discovered about six or seven completely different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, , any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re searching for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, , make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at a number of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing daily, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first go dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually troublesome to sort of be capable to say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do a number of testing to determine that out. So make-up I might say, and different than simply, , following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that info on the market. Even the scientists who have been taking a look at it, they’re probably not like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to work out which one they examined however that’s why we did it.

 

One other factor is like water, look into your water. It is a actually huge deal as a result of for those who dwell by a navy base otherwise you dwell by an airport that is actually vital, navy bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater under and has contaminated a number of groundwater by these bases. So for those who dwell by an airport otherwise you dwell by a navy base, I might simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s most likely going to be there and it is probably not a sort of PFAS that we will acknowledge simply but. You recognize, as a result of that’s the opposite downside with water is, we aren’t as much as testing in any respect. So I might simply assume, , that that’s how I’m working proper now’s I’m simply assuming, though our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, , there’s like 10,000 on the market, , that’s how I really feel like there’s an enormous gaping gap. So water, work on water.

 

Clothes is one other huge one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve a number of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to growing strategies for testing. A few of them, , they’re working at several types of phases in several types of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up towards your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.

 

And since we don’t know, we will’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to seek out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which are stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in a number of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so for those who go to Mamavation…I want I might inform you each single one, nevertheless it’s very complicated on the market proper now to seek out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which are producing clothes, aren’t wanting on the huge chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, and so they say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, .

 

And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, for example. Bluesign licensed is a type of certifications that may permit sure kinds of PFAS chemical substances within the certification and but they sort of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the buyer and the explanation it’s complicated for the buyer is the scientists have simply sort of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to contemplate as a part of the chemical. So I don’t need to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the legislation, , once they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering generally the businesses are two, three years behind, , the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m working into a number of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, , something like that, that may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be looking for that.

 

Tents and outside tools. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to snigger at me, however there may be one model that we love a lot. And it’s acquired a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish title and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t converse Swedish. And it’s acquired a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there may be a number of European manufacturers that as an alternative of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, for example, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really comparable or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra expensive, , you’re not going to discover a low-cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, , extra pure…and I do know paraffin shouldn’t be pure, however like, , it’s higher than PFAS. These kinds of mixtures which are much less problematic to the atmosphere in an affordable means but, hopefully the longer term will change that.

 

Then additionally, , it’s in automotive wax and surfboard wax, these kinds of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been fascinated by this when it comes to what’s round us. You recognize, for those who’re going to be doing flooring, for example, , we went after bamboo and we regarded particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s inexpensive, it doesn’t dent, you’ll be able to stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be making an attempt to love, , clear up all the issues after which we did discover one model. Nevertheless it’s troublesome. It’s actually troublesome to keep away from it, , grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you’ll be able to. These are the three issues that I might say would most likely do essentially the most bang to your buck and simply look out for locations who…like for those who go to mamavation.com, we’ve performed an investigation on like a number of issues, not every thing but, however on a number of issues. And that’s the…I’m making an attempt to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m sort of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is basically difficult.

 

Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you stated, we’re seeing some which are labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, nevertheless it jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some instances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you stated, that they’re secure.

 

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And I do know out of your website, you’ve performed investigations into all of those several types of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I might like to undergo some others which are particularly most likely relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?

 

Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as dangerous, really. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I believe, 32 or 33, completely different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, what I imply? I put on them actually daily, it’s sort of like my outfit, it must be like a uniform. And I do know each day, I’m sporting yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually snug, and my hair is in a very messy bun, I acquired a number of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, after I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to seek out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to seek out it. After which I assumed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, for those who look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 elements per million, so that’s secure.

 

We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and finest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the prime of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which have been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be at liberty to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in the very best on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to sort of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as effectively. So this was not as dangerous, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it could be comparable in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I’ll sooner or later, possibly begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however for those who…to find out about that, I don’t find out about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to inform you I don’t find out about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.

 

Katie: Effectively, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices obtainable as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s speak about sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.

 

Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the interior half. So the interior half is that, like, sort of pores and skin shade mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which are subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And after I instructed my advisors about this, a number of them they have been pediatricians that have been, , serving to me assessment this one particular one, they have been involved and extra of our advisors have been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up towards your breasts. Now, right here’s the state of affairs I’m considering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You recognize, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as finest as you’ll be able to and you’ve acquired like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re understanding, understanding, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So then you definitely run upstairs, you go get the child, and increase, breastfeed. That’s the state of affairs I’m fearful about.

 

So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and take a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and finest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not every thing. It was exhausting due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however considered one of them that I did discover that I believe persons are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has really been doing a number of work on PFAS and textiles and you might inform as a result of after I examined towards that, they got here out clear. So for those who’re an enormous busted woman, which I’m, my ladies are fairly massive…For those who’re an enormous busted woman you don’t need, like, black eyes whilst you’re understanding, proper, Goal’s a type of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s filled with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. In order that they’re referred to as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And generally I simply preserve testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, , and that was a type of points the place I simply saved testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you need to look on mamavation.com. For those who go there, we’ve acquired all the assessments listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.

 

Katie: What about interval underwear? That is after I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m an enormous fan of the menstrual cup as an alternative for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as effectively, however what did you discover when it got here to those?

 

Leah: It was fairly dangerous really after we regarded into interval underwear, we had…I’m making an attempt to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I believe we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that really market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however you might have considered trying to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’ll present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However it’s a must to have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You take a look at that scientific research, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection stage is so much greater than mine. So I take a look at at 10 elements per million. They have been testing at 50, so what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I might say there’s some humorous enterprise happening in that.

 

And the issue is…I, , interviewed a number of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And primarily what’s taking place is what they stated to me is you have got lots of people on this trade that don’t actually have a number of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know so much about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at a number of different issues, however they don’t actually know so much concerning the processing of textiles. And for those who don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you may get Oeko-Tex cloth, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer will probably be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” They usually know that for those who put that on it destroys every thing, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it anyhow. And so , for those who’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile trade, you might fall into that class.

 

So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that regarded like…there was a couple of manufacturers that had ranges that have been actually excessive, proper, I might be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that have been low. And so if you take a look at that, it seems like extra of a contamination subject than it seems like an deliberately added subject. However I don’t know what, , the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no one is aware of. In order that’s why we have been capable of do the classes we have been and I consider it was…it could be seven now as a result of we preserve testing. And we preserve including to that report, , each time we do discover one thing, and people who ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to do this I can take a look at stuff, simply preserve it in its unique packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had neighborhood members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go take a look at it within the lab simply to verify we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we will see. That’s not a superb one.

 

Katie: Gotcha. I’ll ensure that we hyperlink to those as effectively as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and other people can go search for the particular particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm could have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of children, it is a favourite so as to add to a number of stuff. So what about ketchup?

 

Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had whole fluorine in it. Now, I needed to elucidate to everyone that I did whole fluorine assessments on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me inform you sort of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab during the last 2 years, a number of testing. So that offers you an concept of how a lot testing I’ve performed. And I might say 80% of that testing, we’ve performed natural fluorine on. And after I first began, I did whole fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, , my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.

 

However we discovered a ton of whole fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, , in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Complete Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me suppose that that could be white-labeled, possibly white-labeled Heinz ketchup, have you learnt what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and a number of them have been actually near 10. So it was like they have been proper there, proper?

 

So right here’s the reply to that, of all the issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…and so they do whole fluorine on every thing, however then we run one other take a look at and it’s a take a look at for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re capable of do a calculation to deduct the entire fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, in order that they do this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not attainable, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, possibly three elements per million. You recognize, so a number of manufacturers will need to say, in the event that they need to say it’s whole fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, , fluoride to be an enormous factor and something, , I believe they need to suppose that it’s nevertheless it’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers individuals have been actually, actually…they actually needed to find out about.

 

And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, and so they have been just about the identical quantity. So I believe that we’re discovering a number of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that individual investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply most likely not going to be till subsequent 12 months someday, proper? And I need to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know a number of them do find out about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and stated they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.

 

Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so individuals can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to come back in different classes as effectively. So individuals can keep updated with you to maintain an eye fixed out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s attainable to get individuals examined for these compounds. And I additionally marvel like, is there even a…for those who’re going to weigh the chance and advantages, is it even price doing? We don’t know how one can get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it price testing if it’s even attainable? Or is it higher simply to know they’re dangerous and keep away from them?

 

Leah: So I want I might have performed that after I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a take a look at downstairs, there’s a model new take a look at that got here out. I believe it’s referred to as Empower FX. So I’m going to need to double test on that. However there’s a model new take a look at the place you’ll be able to prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, it is a huge big deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s obtainable to everyone. So let me provide you with some background. So I needed to do a physique burden, , scientific research. And I had a number of scientists concerned and we sort of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near unattainable to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, , it’s not like with polyphenols and, , you wait per week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually exhausting to review in your physique, actually, actually troublesome to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.

 

At that time, we have been wanting right into a lab that was about $1,000 a take a look at. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll inform you my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at dwelling. What we have been going to look into was sending individuals to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, , strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I need to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down under. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab around the globe. So it’s a very…that’s an amazing partnership. And so Eurofins is the accomplice on this and so they’re producing these little take a look at kits. So you’ll be able to take a look at your self, it’s a bit of drip of blood, ship it off, and I consider they’re testing for between 16 to 30 completely different PFAS, however the commonest ones that you simply’re going to seek out in water.

 

Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as effectively if it’s in your website, or I’ll get that data from you for people who find themselves…

 

Leah: It’s not but.

 

Katie: Okay.

 

Leah: You’ve acquired it first.

 

Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, after all, flew by as a result of we all the time have such enjoyable conversations.

 

Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.

 

Katie: So we’ll simply need to do extra rounds of this as increasingly investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you need to give to our listeners right now, might be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?

 

Leah: Oh, , when it comes to these things, I might say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, possibly eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve realized, , I need to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And all the different issues, I’ll primarily based on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, when it comes to like, if you’re fascinated by issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you need to take a look at are the large dailies, proper, each day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff when it comes to, , don’t freak out over some factor that you simply’re going to be consuming, , or ingesting as soon as a month. So go off to your buddy’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, , get pleasure from your self. As a result of the stress that you would be able to placed on individuals primarily based on being afraid of all these things, I believe, will be worse on you general than I believe the precise chemical substances themselves and that’s what I’ve realized through the years.

 

And so shield your area, shield your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I believe that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re sensible. And in addition stepping into the world of it’d being like a disordered considering course of, , the disordered considering means of every thing is poisonous shouldn’t be a superb place so that you can be. I need you to get pleasure from your life. And , comply with individuals like Katie and I for, , directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You recognize, that’s my recommendation is, , management what you bought within the dwelling, exit and discover the world and luxuriate in your self, and take a look at to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my finest recommendation.

 

After which simply, , attempt to keep abreast of this, however , that is a type of points the place persons are probably not contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of girls who’re residing in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you simply care, and also you care about them, have you learnt what I’m saying? For those who’re voting for them, and that is your subject, ensure that they know that that is vital to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and once they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they acquired their little strollers and stuff, you’re in hassle. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t need to piss off both of these teams. However , that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s a number of states and after I say so much, I imply a number of states proper now which are contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.

 

Katie: Yeah, I’ve stated that so many occasions on this podcast that mothers are such a power of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the common mother modifications her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many various ranges. And I’ve seen it on an area stage. Really, the place I used to dwell, it was fascinating, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and acquired it modified. However I believe it doesn’t need to be…I believe we frequently don’t do it as a result of we expect it must be this big quantity, this big groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they listen. So I might say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our children, don’t underestimate your energy to vary that. And in addition to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you’ll be able to but in addition understand the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or change into traumatic. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our each day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.

 

Leah: Love you, woman. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.

 

Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time right now. It’s all the time, after all, so enjoyable to get to talk with you. Like I stated, we’ll do it once more as increasingly data turns into obtainable. However thanks for being right here.

 

Leah: After all. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.

 

Katie: And thanks, as all the time, to all of you for listening and sharing your Most worthy sources, your time, your vitality and your consideration with us right now. We’re each so grateful that you simply did and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the following episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

 

For those who’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a ranking or assessment on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra individuals to seek out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the knowledge. I actually admire your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.



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